Free Will and Religious Thoughts

Hi, religion folks.

Free Will is a wild topic, ain’t it?

For those who have an old testament and a new testament their scripture says things like this (taken from https://www.biblestudytools.com/topical-verses/bible-verses-about-free-will/ ):

Genesis 2:16-17

16 And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; 17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”

Deuteronomy 30:19-20

19 This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses. Now choose life, so that you and your children may live 20 and that you may love the LORD your God, listen to his voice, and hold fast to him. For the LORD is your life, and he will give you many years in the land he swore to give to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

Joshua 24:15

15 But if serving the LORD seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the LORD.”

Ezekiel 18:30-32

30 “Therefore, you Israelites, I will judge each of you according to your own ways, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent! Turn away from all your offenses; then sin will not be your downfall. 31 Rid yourselves of all the offenses you have committed, and get a new heart and a new spirit. Why will you die, people of Israel? 32 For I take no pleasure in the death of anyone, declares the Sovereign LORD. Repent and live!

Proverbs 16:9

9 In their hearts humans plan their course, but the LORD establishes their steps.

2 Chronicles 9:7

7 How happy your people must be! How happy your officials, who continually stand before you and hear your wisdom!

Isaiah 55:6-7

6 Seek the LORD while he may be found; call on him while he is near. 7 Let the wicked forsake their ways and the unrighteous their thoughts. Let them turn to the LORD, and he will have mercy on them, and to our God, for he will freely pardon.
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And then in the New Testament

Mark 8:34

34 Then he called the crowd to him along with his disciples and said: “Whoever wants to be my disciple must deny themselves and take up their cross and follow me.

John 1:12-13

12 Yet to all who did receive him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God— 13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.

John 7:17

17 Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

2 Peter 3:9

9 The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Galatians 5:13

13 You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh ; rather, serve one another humbly in love.

Galatians 5:16-17

16 So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. 17 For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want.

Romans 6:23

23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Romans 10:9-10

9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you profess your faith and are saved.

Romans 13:2

2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

1 Corinthians 10:13

13 No temptation has overtaken you except what is common to mankind. And God is faithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you can bear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out so that you can endure it.

Revelation 3:20

20 Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
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If I were to quickly offer a heathen’s interpretation of these passages in regards to the subject of free will they would go (in order of the chosen passages):
1) Is it really free will if knowledge about what one may will is forbidden?  Seems to be a carry over from similar ancient myths like Pandora which blame humans for the faults of humans.
2) Okay…. is it free will when it’s a choice of “life and death… blessings and curses”?  That’s like telling someone they have the free will to be stabbed or give you their wallet.
3) Claims to offer free will, but ignores the idea of not serving any god.  Which “You’re free to pick from our approved list of gods” seems not like free will.
4) Once again the free will seems to be made as a life or death choice.  Which is as much free will as a common street thug’s “your money or your life.”
5) This is the most legitimate passage advocating actual free will of humans in the selection…. and even then it seems like the options a human are given are selected by god.
6) I cannot figure out why this passage was chosen.  Doesn’t really seem about the subject.
7) Humans have free will but any will exercised not how we dictate must be viewed as wicked (which seems to rig the idea of choice).
– And now the new testament ones.
8) That’s pretty legit.  And goes the opposite of the new testament where joining the faithful seemed to be choosing life and prosperity.  Now it seems to be literally baring a cross.
9) And this is why John is the gospel writer who opened up christianity to expand beyond just judaism.  “children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.” You don’t have to be born how everyone was telling you to embrace our god.  Neat, some free will offered here.
10) Furthers my point about John.  Hell you don’t even have to embrace the teachings of god to do god’s will in his interpretation.  You can literally speak your own!  This is some real free will!
11) Eh, we’re now back to “And your free to worship us whenever you want.”
12) Now we’re even trying to make free will based on actual instincts bad.
13) See 12… Though this is more Saul’s prudish views towards sex.
14) ….and now we’re back to “Choose us or choose death…”  Great….
15) Ah, now it’s not you choose death if you don’t choose us, now we’re at a “Choose us or you won’t be saved”… which still sounds extortive.
16) Honestly this passage just seems to go with the Principality angels and the “Divine right of kings” in philosophy.  Which seem very against free will.  You can’t even have personal impact on the authorities in your life.  Take that, people who think voting is a good idea.  (though makes sense this is in the epistle to the Romans, the authority of the time)
17) You have free will… but god will make sure the choices are what you can handle.  Might not work in reality and when faced with a book of job like question, but nothing against the free will sentiment here.
18) This sounds more like Elijah at a passover seder to me.
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Now that we saw the scriptural sources and a heathen’s interpretation, let’s look at a faithful person’s interpretation.

“Theres only one problem: without God, there can be no moral choice. Without God, there is no capacity for free will.” – Ben Shapiro

It seems Shapiro seems to reject that compassion is a natural human impulse and probably has never felt remorse for any action in his life unless he feels god made him feel like he should have had remorse.  Never mind the fact that many societies he’d view as ‘godless’ for lacking his god have had honor codes and abrahamic religions are hardly the only ones who came up with “Do unto others…”


Now for fun, let’s look at a secular passage on free will, the song ‘free will’, by Rush:

There are those who think that life
Has nothing left to chance
With a host of holy horrors
To direct our aimless dance

A planet of playthings
We dance on the strings
Of powers we cannot perceive
“The stars aren’t aligned –
Or the gods are malign”
Blame is better to give than receive

You can choose a ready guide
In some celestial voice
If you choose not to decide
You still have made a choice
You can choose from phantom fears
And kindness that can kill
I will choose a path that’s clear
I will choose free will.

There are those who think that
They were dealt a losing hand
The cards were stacked against them
They weren’t born in Lotus-Land.

All pre-ordained
A prisoner in chains
A victim of venomous fate
Kicked in the face
You can’t pray for a place
In Heaven’s unearthly estate

Each of us
A cell of awareness
Imperfect and incomplete
Genetic blends
With uncertain ends
On a fortune hunt
That’s far too fleet…


Rush seems to present that as sure as life presents us choices and we must make those choices, free will is undeniable.

 

So where do you land on this debate?  Do atheists have free will?

 

Roam85

Article URL : https://www.rush.com/songs/freewill/