R&I – TxPat ****.
Matt Dillahunty asks:
What context could possibly make it morally permissible, to own another human being as property and beat them as long as they don’t die within a couple days?
Please tell me the context that makes that morally permissible…because that is EXACTLY what the Bible advocates.
WOW! way to sell a tired beat down version, your cash cow no doubt.
Firstly…what context? OUT of context. It’s flat out cherry picking, ignoring the rest of the Bible.
I thought atheists, were all about supporting the claim, burden on you.
What you deliberately ignore…
What about all the commands and guarantees of equality enforced by God?
Lev19.34, 19.18, Deut 10.18? Same as Gal3.28…no more Hebrew or Gentile, no more Slave or Freeman, no more Male or Female…all are one, equal in God, in Christ. God commanded the Hebrew…treat the stranger, the foreigner or the Gentiles as equals…to love the Gentiles! As themselves. That was unheard of, revolutionary stuff. It was the appeal and allure of the Abrahamic God building a new nation.
What about lev24.17? These were the avenging laws, any human some translations say…any man killing another shall die. Any blemish will be paid likewise in equal payment.
17 And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death.
(17 If a man takes the life of any human being, he shall surely be put to death)
19 And if a man cause a blemish in his neighbour; as he hath done, so shall it be done to him;
20 Breach for breach, eye for eye, tooth for tooth: as he hath caused a blemish in a man, so shall it be done to him again
- What do you say to that?
2. Why do you ignore the equality?
God in Genesis made man in His image…not the white man or the black man, just man. He made man, male and female…so reading mankind means both right?
So that’s, no classism, no racism, no gender inequality. Sound moral to you yet?
This was NOT, say it again…NOT forced servitude..no slavery was permitted. Ex21.16 is death for the kidnapper, the middleman, and the apostate Hebrew handling a slave in his home etc. ANYTHING resembling Egypt type forced servitude, which they were just delivered out from, was a death sentence. It was love the neighbor and strangers OR ELSE. Don’t buy that? Read Jeremiah 34 and see what happens when the Hebrew failed to honor God’s commands towards the Hebrew male, Hebrew female, and covenanted Gentile neighbor. The Babylonians is what happens. God removed the Restrainer out of justification and the Hebrews were conquered for 70 years.
BTW if you bother to read Jeremiah 34…so much for your idea that female covenant partners, Hebrew or Gentile were in some BS loop hole and forced to serve. You have NO CLUE what you’re talking about, like you act like Kruger.
But let me ask…
3. Was lev25.44-46 to you and your narrative somehow voluntary? Did these individuals WANT permanent servitude and your idea of condoned beatings? Because if forced was prohibited, what’s left is only voluntary, willingly selling oneself. To you, this was what they apparently asked for. But what it really was…was debt bondage.
It’s debt bondage and it’s provable.
- Multiple cases of bondservants having their debts paid and then freed…
Ruth and Boaz, Paul offered to pay Philemon’s bondservants debt and free him, the two boys and widow selling olive oil with Elijah to pay off their debt, the captain in Acts that literally says, “with a large sum have I achieved my freedom”.
2. The Jubilee…which you acknowledge. Well…it WAS DEBT CANCELLATION! What was borrowed, from the LORD, either land or person..was debt absolved and returned. The Hebrew or Gentile in covenant with God became God’s servant…loaned out like the land for no more than 6 years. Read it…Deut 15.12 and most convincingly Jeremiah 34.
3. And let’s not forget the DEBT bondage of sin which Christ paid for..which the old foretells. The Hebrews were commanded to treat the Gentiles with rigour…or strictness. That debt had to be paid off in full. No other way. It was legally binding upon the individual, a legal contract. And don’t we do that very same thing today? Of course we do. We just don’t work for the rich guy’s family directly.
Debt is a contract that is passed down on the creditors side til paid in full. How often do creditors change in loans etc? Then it was just down the family, father to children til paid in full.
When you read it out of context…you really don’t grasp what’s being said Matt.
Today…you work to pay off debt too. You have protections, but let’s face it…who isn’t bound to that debt. We live paycheck to paycheck, multiple credit cards maxed out, mortgage and car note you don’t own but basically rent out, predicated by contract to be repossessed any time it’s breached. And you STILL have to pay if that happens. It’s the newest form of slavery…debt bondage and simply debt itself in today’s modern notion of charge it.
So…”what possible context makes it morally permissible?” In reality? That’s easy…welfare for the people. Prevention of slavery. Prevention of selling ones children into shrine prostitution or worse, child sacrifice…any trafficking. This eliminated the poor and homeless, offered equality…built a new nation, theocracy with God in charge. It worked…as long as the covenant partners, the Hebrews worked with Him. But that’s an entirely different subject.
When you read it out of context…you really don’t grasp what’s being said. Either you are deliberately ignoring the rest…whilst you cherry pick scripture, or you can’t comprehend. Because the title of the book…COVENANT literally is a marriage proposal that screams, “Get out and get in with Me, God”. Deut 28&29.
Which brings me to the most revealing truth about the false narrative you’ve been milking for the last decade on your self delusional, self acknowledged cage match show…chattel slavery and permission to beat an individual anytime and place, advocated by God…only to the antitheist like you Matt.
Christ paid the price for all in bondage…debt bondage…and set them free, physically and spiritually. That only happened because it first happened in the old. God’s the Hero Matt.
God in lev25.44 buys the slave…to set them free. Deuteronomy 29.10-15.
28 is a literal list of covenant blessings, rights, and promises for the covenanted Gentile and covenant Hebrews.
God says…choose life! A plea. Unforced. The Bible’s a love story you refuse to read.
Please read it correctly…without your bias and without your prejudice and preconceived ideas. Read it without the chip on your shoulder Matt. You may get what you put into it in return.