Squaring Genesis 18 with Romans 5:13

R&I- TXPAT )))

Questions down below, relevant scriptures first.

Genesis 18:20-21
20 Then the Lord said, “The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and their sin so grievous 21 that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know.”

Jude 1:7
In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire.

Romans 5:13
13 To be sure, sin was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not charged against anyone’s account where there is no law.

Romans 7:5-12
For when we were in the realm of the flesh,[a] the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death. But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law.  For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”[b] But sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, produced in me every kind of coveting. For apart from the law, sin was dead. Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death. 12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good.

Romans 2:12-16

12 All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14 (Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law. 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them.) 16 This will take place on the day when God judges people’s secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares. (All this is Paul’s opinions)

13 It was not through the law that Abraham and his offspring received the promise that he would be heir of the world, but through the righteousness that comes by faith. 14 For if those who depend on the law are heirs, faith means nothing and the promise is worthless,15 because the law brings wrath.  And where there is no law there is no transgression.

The questions:

If sin is dead apart from the law and sin does not get charged to your account, then why are people in Sodom and Gahmorra’s sins so grievous to God?

Is there really any difference between “sins in the world” to “people sinning and it counting against them” and can you explain it?  Clearly Paul believe sins were “dead” before the law.

If people are “sinning” it seems to me that people sin without the law quite contrary to what Paul says about sin, that sin comes because “the sinful passions aroused by the law“?  What is arousing sin in people without the law?  I mean without the law the people in Sodom and Gahmorrah should have been alive (Romans 7:9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died.)

In one part of Romans he says God’s laws are written on peoples hearts – 15 They show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts sometimes accusing them and at other times even defending them. – but then confesses ignorance of the law in others – I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law.  For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, “You shall not covet.”

Why does Paul say people have the law written on their heart, then says they wouldn’t have known the law in another part?  These two things seem contrary. He literally says with out the law, I would not have known!

Tell me, how many of you desire to murder or rape? I mean, if we are to believe Paul, you should desire to murder and rape, since a law exists to murder and rape…

Does anyone else see all of Paul’s gospel as completely convoluted?

Is it any wonder why the teachers of the law, the wise men and philosophers of his day rejected his Gospel.

Summary:
Clearly there were sinners before the law and it counted against sinners before the Law.  I think Paul was trying to characterize the law in away to make his whole spirituality movement more attractive to jew and non-jew.

But we know God and the other prophets of the OT love the commandments and are commanded to follow them forever.
72 verses
https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Keep-The-Commandments

Paul’s gospel is a lazy man’s salvation.

 

Article URL : https://www.bibleref.com/Romans/5/Romans-5-13.html

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